Mark Nepo: The Power and the Spirit of Community

You know, in Chinese Philosophy, there’s a beautiful mythical creature known as a Chien, and a Chien is a bird that has one eye, and one wing and its sole journey in life are to find another Chien so that it can see and fly together.

JUSTINE TOMS: I’m thinking of the way the Geese move, and they have different leaders, and they encourage each other with honking, and that leader and that V shape will break the air for the others, and when that leader gets tired it moves back and somebody else takes over, and they all encourage each other. That’s why we hear them honking when they fly overhead in their V formation, and that’s what you’re talking about, of holding together and sharing with one another.

MARK NEPO: Yes, and in the larger of all the stories and all the cultures that I’ve been able to look at, and even those took me all these years, and it’s in no way definitive. It’s in no way definitive. It’s like trying to drink the ocean; I can only drink what I can hold even after all that time. But in all the things that I was able to look at, one kind of insight held true across all the stories and all the traditions, and that is when fear makes us think that self-interest will save us and protect us, love and suffering affirm that we’re more together than alone.

JUSTINE TOMS: Yes, and I’m reminded as you’re talking, of another story that you tell in the book, and it’s from a wonderful storyteller, about a man on his deathbed. If you could tell that story, I think it really demonstrates what you’re talking about.

MARK NEPO: Yes, she’s a wonderful storyteller and Poet, herself, and obviously a Therapist and Thinker. She tells this story of a man who is on his deathbed, and he has a large, very loving family, and they all come together, and he gives each of them a stick, a little twig, and he asks them all to break it. They break it easily. Then he hands another bundle of sticks, the same amount of sticks that are all tied together, and he passes it around all of his children and loved ones, and he says now break this and no-one can break the bundle. He says promise me when I’m gone that you’ll all stay together because together we’re unbreakable.

JUSTINE TOMS: It just goes back to your story, the story of the Native American Elders Circle that it takes all of the perspectives together to heal where we are right now really. Are you optimistic about the future, Mark?

MARK NEPO: Yes, I am. I mean I’m not denying the difficulty we’re in, but the rhythm of life force and the rhythm of humanity is larger than what any one time can do; either wonderfully, or disastrously. So, I am optimistic, and I’m very optimistic about our youth, and I was so moved by the students at the Parkland High School after that mass shooting. They’re very old souls, and brave souls who were thrust at an early age into this conversation we’re having, and Mother Theresa said that courage is doing small things with love. I think we’re all asked right now to be more visible, more present in whatever way we’re called to every day, so that we don’t rush to the top of the mountain, but we tend to each other on the path. We will re-stitch the web of the Universe together as every generation before has had to do. Some do it better than others and some it takes a long time and some it’s short, but this is our turn. This is our turn.

JUSTINE TOMS: I know one of your favorite quotes is an E.E. Cummings quote, which says I’d rather learn from one bird how to sing than to teach 10,000 stars how not to dance. Share with us why you love that piece of poetry.

MARK NEPO: Well, in that couplet, E.E. Cummings opens two very different ways of learning which speak to what we’re talking about over this entire time. He says, as you telescope that out, he says I’d rather learn than teach, I’d rather learn how to than how not to. He says I’d rather learn how to teach one bird, which is a living thing than teach 10,000 stars. I’d rather learn how to learn from one than teach 10,000. So, he telescopes out this whole sense of being open to how all of life is encoded. Just like x and y chromosomes. In any chromosome, all of life is encoded there. All of life is encoded in the simplest gesture of heart.

JUSTINE TOMS: Mark Nepo. Thank you so much for being with us today. I thank Sandie Sedgbeer for allowing me to take her place today and to be with Mark Nepo.