Jude Currivan: The Story of Gaia
Jude Currivan: We do. And we have an invitation.
Sandie Sedgbeer: In the story of Gaia, you do an enthralling job of telling us how all of this came into being. You also raised the ultimate question, which is ‘why?’. So what is the answer? What is the ‘why?’
Jude Currivan: I can only respond from my own perspective of how I felt after feeling through that incredible journey of our evolutionary Universe. And I asked the question, ‘why?’ up front? Because right up front, you realize the incredible way our Universe came into being – incredibly hot, black, minute, and yet filled with potential. And then to take that whole journey of that potential unfolding from simplicity to complexity. And so I came to the perspective that our Universe is a great thought of an infinite cosmos, come into being to explore itself and to experience itself and to do so both in its wholeness, but also in its minute, microcosmic diversity and complexity. When we look at how atoms move to elements and then into Stardust clouds and then into planets, and then into biological organisms. And how, for each of the ongoing evolutionary journeys of the emergence of complexity, at each point where there was a leap forward, everything was in a relationship, is in relationship with everything else, everything collaborates with everything else. Those leaps forward required cooperation, greater levels of collective cooperation, and synergistic action. And, I think that’s, that’s the journey.
So, as microcosmic co-creators, we are both our planetary home Gaia and the entire Universe. It’s both a responsibility and an invitation; It seems to me because we are in an unsustainable situation, our worldview of Separation, no blame, no shame, has brought us to this point. We’ve individuated ourselves to a great extent, and now we have the evidence and the ability to remember we are inseparable and to cooperate. And this, it seems, is our moment of choice to consciously evolve.
These are moments of choice that Gaia has come to before. You know, when the initial cells didn’t have nuclei, they couldn’t sort of breathe in oxygen. But for hundreds of millions of years, those two things came about through cooperation. And then those single cells that are still with us could cooperate further to become multicellular and a 37 trillion community that is us. So, each of us is a 37 trillion cellular community that isn’t just human cells. It’s also fungi ,and viruses, and bacteria. And I think every time that cooperative emergence happens, in every moment, the Universe is learning more about itself and its potentiality and, therefore, its exploration of consciousness.
Sandie Sedgbeer: So, we talk about the Universe, but there are multiple universes. And you say that our Universe is not infinite. It’s finite. So tell me a bit more about that. Does that mean our Universe is going to disappear?
Jude Currivan: Well, yes. Think of it as a great thought when each of us has a thought that thought begins, i takes us where it takes us, and then it comes to an end. So, as a great thought, but a great finite thought in the infinite and eternal cosmos, yes. And the reason I can say this with a fair amount of perspective is for a number of reasons. First of all, we know that our Universe came into its life cycle a finite amount of time ago. And it came into being at a finite scale, a minute scale, but nonetheless finite. There is nothing within space-time that is infinite. Everything that manifests within space-time is infinite and yet finite expressions of an infinite cosmos, a cosmic planner. We also know through the whole processes that I write about in the story of Gaia how our Universe began in its hottest form, called the plant scale temperature, hugely hot, and its lowest informational content.
And there is a law of physics that says in a contained system that temperature is what’s called inversely proportional to informational content. So from that beginning, lowest information content, highest temperature, moving now to the lowest temperature at the end of its life cycle, thought cycle, and highest information content. So we have a universe, a great thought, that at some point, maybe tens of billions of years ahead, but not infinitely ahead, the temperature of our Universe drops to pretty much zero.
Zero degrees Kelvin; at that time. What will happen? I don’t know, but I suspect that rather like a bubble growing, growing, growing, and it comes to its endpoint, it just disperses into the air. Then, perhaps, all the accumulated in-formational experience of our Universe is then again released back into the mind of the cosmos to settle until other universes come forward. And there are possibly likely to be many universes. We don’t know that we’re speculating that, but it would make sense.
Sandie Sedgbeer: I imagine some people hearing this would say, well then, what is the point of us trying to protect the planet if our Universe is going to disappear?
Jude Currivan: What’s the point of having children and caring, for one day they’re going to die? You know, we lose every aspect of meaning if we ask that question in a way, because it then completely takes all the meaning out of the experience, of love. So I’m sharing the story of Gaia and the cosmic hologram before that, which is of a unified universe that is a loving universe.
Sandie Sedgbeer: Do you believe the Universe has a soul?
Jude Currivan: It’s a really interesting point because I write it as a universe soul (UniverSoul) because our tradition is that beyond our incarnated consciousness as humans, or, as I’d like to invite us to term ourselves, as Gaians, other aspects of our consciousness are discarnate. So, you know, that sense of an ongoing soul that continues beyond the demise of our physical being. And so, in a sense, by naming our Universe as our “UniverSoul,” it encompasses and embodies everything in its journey. And at the end of that journey, our demise, our consciousness continues. That bubble of our Universe, in some way or other, continues within the infinite, eternal plan of the cosmic mind.
Sandie Sedgbeer: You started writing the story of Gaia in early 2020, just as we were going into lockdown, as you say, at the same moment as the oldest and smallest of Gaia’s organic offspring of virus inserted itself into the collective body of humanity. Do you think that that was, um, purposeful, that the virus occurred for a reason?
Jude Currivan: I actually do and for a number of reasons. First of all, this understanding, this evidence-based perspective of a living and evolutionary multidimensional Universe, which is innately meaningful and inherently purposeful, at its heart is a fundamental underpinning and framing. And so, in that sense, and all through my life in many other ways, I’ve seen a purpose that perhaps has been hidden. It’s been beneath the surface.
I’m a scuba diver. And when you look at the surface of an ocean, you see the waves, which can look incredibly turbulent. But when you dive beneath, this massive, vast environment cannot be seen from the surface. So there’s so much that is under our awareness. And I do feel, I write in the book, that viruses have been changing agents throughout Gaia’s story. So, for example, there’s so-called horizontal gene transfer, which is when there’s been a catastrophic environmental collapse, primarily because a particular arc of that evolutionary wave has come to its endpoint.
Alongside that breakdown, there is a breakthrough to higher levels of complexity. And that breakthrough and horizontal gene transfer are incredibly rapid and wide-ranging. And viruses play a key part in that, as we’re now discovering they may well do in the processes of metamorphosis. So the idea of the virus being a change agent, a potential change agent for us, has great merit. And what else stopped us in our tracks? I sense that it brought forward our potential for conscious evolution for quite some time.
Sandie Sedgbeer: I’ve studied astrology for years, and when you see how everything has come together at the right time, just as astrology is also telling us this, you have to believe there are no accidents.
Jude Currivan: I don’t feel there are, and you know, I’m an astrologer and astronomer. And, of course, in the ancient traditions, they were complementary. In this perspective, they’re also complementary because the entirety of our Universe is innately intelligent and conscious. And also holographic. We haven’t quite hit that mind-blowing perspective yet. But, being holographic as cosmologists are coming more and more to perceive, means that the whole of our Universe is expressed in each part. And as we scale up the sort of complexity it’s called holons (2) into what’s called holarchy (3), we still scale up just as atoms and molecules and organs and ecosystems, bodies and ecosystems. So our solar system, in this understanding of innate consciousness, is a matrix of consciousness. So astrology has a natural validation through this emergent cosmology of a living and evolving universe.
Sandie Sedgbeer: So how do we move from the illusion of Separation into the whole worldview of unity?
Jude Currivan: I think it begins with each and every one of us. I believe it begins from an inner to an outer. I’m very clear that information doesn’t change hearts and minds’ emotions. Do I suspect that you know the unsustainable of where we’re at? Although it’s a huge challenge, there’s an enormous amount of grief, sadness, and anger around it. Suppose we can at least understand what we are sharing today, that we are meaningful, purposeful microcosms of our Universe and our planetary home’s evolutionary impulse. In that case, I hope that gives us an underpinning and a framing to respond to that perhaps in a different way. I know that we need to clean up our collective trauma from the illusion of Separation, that’s for sure. But suppose we actually perceive that what this evidence is offering us is authentic hope. In that case, it’s offering us an invitation to remember that we’re inseparable. And if that invite even empowers us to take one step into this journey of remembering and wholeness, then so be it. And I think that the reality is that this is a universe of love. This is a universe that I believe is inviting us to grow up, wake up, clean up, link up, and lift up together.
Sandie Sedgbeer: Last month, the United Nations held its 27th conference on climate change, and this month the COP 15 Conference takes place in Montreal, which is more geared towards looking at ecosystems and the protection of animals. Do these conferences ever invite people like you along to speak?
Jude Currivan: Well, I actually did speak at Cop 26 last year. I did so, basically being asked for my views on how to transform a death economy, which is one based on Separation and materiality, into a life economy.
And I’ve spoken at G20 meetings in the past. But I think what’s really helpful, and it’s not by any means an easy situation, is that the United Nations, for the first time in its 77-year history, has just formally adopted what’s called a thematic cluster, which is a formal body that’s able to touch, point, and influence and get involved in all of the discussions based on unity.
So it’s based on unity, in diversity. And that came from 200 change makers and thought leaders who realized that without such a perspective of a unitive narrative, there was no chance that the sustainable development goals, agenda 2030, or anything coming from the COPS would really be able to “transformationally” change our world. So it’s happening, Sandie. And the more we can do to share this understanding and invitation, because it is evidence-based – this is the point: it really adds validation and authenticity to this hope – I feel that we can move enormously fast because, somehow, this is what the Universe is brilliant at. It’s not just slow steps of interaction. There can be a collective wake-up, a collective “Aha” moment for our entire species.
Sandie Sedgbeer: Now, what about the theory of the multiverse and parallel universes? If it’s true that with every choice we make, we are creating another parallel universe every time we make a decision -. And it’s just a theory, then clearly, in some universe, we will make the right decision.
Jude Currivan: Yeah. It’s not a theory. It’s an incredibly speculative premise. It doesn’t even go far enough as a hypothesis. And it came forward because the researchers who came forward with it did not want to accept that consciousness is fundamental. They came from a materialist separation perspective. And when the evidence shows the incredible level of fine-tuning of our Universe, it asks one of two questions. If everything’s random, there have to be possibly infinite universes, parallel universes where every quantum choice speeds off into a different universe. Or do we have to bring consciousness, mind, and consciousness into a fundamental reappraisal of nature’s reality? I’m sharing the evidence for that view of parallel universes. I could go into a long discussion about this. There’s no evidence for it. It’s wholly speculative. It really doesn’t make any sense from what’s called Occam’s razor, which is as simple as it can be, but no simpler. It is incredibly disempowering. It was something that sort of came up and had a brief moment in the eighties and nineties. I don’t know anybody with any sort of credibility that’s speaking of it now. Because it just doesn’t hang together.
Sandie Sedgbeer: Let’s talk about the third book in this trilogy you’re writing – “The Transformation Trilogy – which is called “Many Voices, One Heart.” What will that book contain?
Jude Currivan: The story of us and the potential for us. Because the story of Gaia, of course, is the story of Gaia. It’s the story of our entire Universe. But humans arrive right at the end of the story of Gaia and in a way that I hope my readers can acknowledge themselves as being Gaian and really, by the time they’ve completed the book, have a deeper perspective of their relationship with themselves and us together as members of our planetary consciousness.
The first book is the understanding of all of the soul cosmology and the evidence for our Universe’s existence and evolution as a unified identity. The second book, the story of Gaia, is about the evolutionary impulse that’s so profound running throughout the whole story. And then the third book is, is us; what part do we play? What opportunities do we have? What is this potential for us to evolve? So it will be going into multidimensional consciousness, but it will be very much an invitation to us.
Sandie Sedgbeer: So if we’ve come along, as you say, very late in the day. Are we the epitome of expression? Could there be something more, an even better expression than us?
Jude Currivan: For sure. When we look out beyond our solar system, and again, going back to technologies that are amazing, we now know that beyond our solar system, there are probably more planets than stars in our galaxy. And nothing to say that wouldn’t be the case for every galaxy throughout the whole Universe. We also now can actually see from the planets we’ve already studied that there’s an estimate of around 11 million earth-sized planets, Gaia size planets, orbiting their suns in what’s called the habitable zone of liquid water. So when we look at that absolute abundance of potential, the chances are that there are many other self-aware species that are at least as evolved as we are, if not more so. But the question is what happens when a species gets to the point where we can consciously evolve or destroy ourselves and, in destroying ourselves, destroy a lot of our planetary home’s ability to nurture other biological life forms?
That’s our choice. So it seems to me that we either will choose that – we will choose love, or we will choose to come together to link up and lift up, we will choose to repair and heal our relationships within ourselves, within each other, with Gaia and all her children – or we won’t.
And if we don’t, if we stay in that illusion of Separation, the fear-based perspectives that it naturally supports, then Gaia has a good history of deciding when “enough is enough.” And who would blame her? But I do believe that both Gaia and our Universe and our collective yearning are calling us to wake up, to remember we’re inseparable.
Sandie Sedgbeer: That’s the hard one for many people to get their heads around. I think we’ve done a very good number on ourselves re materialistic thinking. And it’s very hard for people to change that view.
Jude Currivan: It is, but it’s not impossible. It’s our urgent moment of choice to do that. And there’s so much help. We’re not alone in this. It seems to me we have so much help. If we can be with her if we can actually be out – I don’t tend to use the word nature because it still has this sense of Separation – but to be with Gaia and to really love her because she loves us. Without a doubt, the love she has for us is extraordinary. And, I just hope that enough of us, and all of us, wake up so that we may grow up, and link up, lift up together in love. In love.
Sandie Sedgbeer: Absolutely. Dr. Jude Currivan. I wish we could talk more, but we are out of time. Thank you so much for joining us.
The Story of Gaia, the Big Breath, and the Evolutionary Journey of Our Conscious Planet by Dr. Jude Currivan, which is published by Inner Traditions, is a must-read for anyone wanting to see the big picture of how humanity arrived at where we are today and our co-creative potential for conscious evolution. For more information about Jude Currivan’s work, book unified reality, and her Ubiquity University course on decoding life, visit JudeCurrivan.com and whole world-view.org.
(1) The stream of knowledge is heading toward a non-mechanical reality; the Universe begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine. Mind no longer appears to be an accidental intruder into the realm of matter… we ought rather to hail it as the creator and governor of the realm of matter. —James Jeans in The Mysterious Universe
(2) A holon (Greek: holos, ‘whole’ and -, -on, ‘part’) is something that is simultaneously a whole in and of itself, as well as a part of a larger whole
(3) A holarchy is a connection between holons, where a holon is both a whole and a part itself.
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